Blog

Understanding the Third-Party Claim

In this episode of The Jeffrey Gross Show, host Jeffrey Gross, Esq. and guest Adam Flager of Flager & Associates provide a masterclass on the synergy between workers’ compensation and personal injury litigation. While many injured workers believe their only recourse is through their employer’s insurance, the reality is often more complex—and more lucrative—when a “third-party” is involved.

A third-party case occurs when a workplace injury is caused by someone other than the employer or a co-worker. Common examples include:

• Motor Vehicle Accidents: A delivery driver hit by a negligent commuter.

• Premises Liability: A worker delivering packages who slips on an icy, unmaintained walkway at a customer’s property.

• Product Liability: Injuries caused by defective machinery or dangerous products.

The Power of Referral Partnerships

The broadcast highlights why specialization is critical. Jeffrey Gross focuses exclusively on the workers’ comp aspect—securing immediate wage loss and medical benefits. Adam Flager then steps in to handle the personal injury (third-party) side, which allows the client to seek “non-economic” damages like pain and suffering, loss of life’s pleasures, and mental anguish. This “hand-off” between specialists ensures that the client isn’t just getting their basic bills paid, but is fully compensated for the totality of their trauma.

Subrogation: The Hidden Factor

One of the most technical aspects discussed is the “subrogation lien.” When a worker wins a third-party lawsuit, the workers’ comp insurance carrier is entitled to be reimbursed for the benefits they already paid. However, a skilled attorney can often negotiate this lien down, ensuring more money stays in the client’s pocket.

Credibility in the Age of Social Media

Perhaps the most vital warning in the episode concerns credibility. In an era of instant video and social media, insurance companies are increasingly using surveillance to “catch” claimants in inconsistencies. Whether it’s a video of a “disabled” worker dancing on a bar or a social media post showing them lifting heavy items at a store, a single moment of dishonesty can deflate the value of a claim instantly.

Episode 16 with Adam Flager of Flager & Associates

Date: February 4, 2025

Host: Jeffrey Gross, Esq.

Co-Host: Joe Dougherty

Guest: Adam Flager, Esq.

Speaker 1 (Announcer): The following programming is sponsored by DND Media. The views expressed do not necessarily reflect the views of this station, its management, or Beasley Media Group.

Speaker 2 (Joe Dougherty): All right, ladies and gentlemen around the Delaware Valley, welcome to the Jeff Gross Show here on WWDB Talk 860. Great show we’ve got going. Jeff, how are you, sir?

Speaker 3 (Jeffrey Gross): I’m good, Joe, how are you?

Speaker 2 (Joe Dougherty): I could not be better. We’ve got a fantastic guest, Adam Flager. Adam Flager, how are you doing, Adam?

Speaker 4 (Adam Flager): Doing well, Joe, and thanks for having me, Joe and Jeff. I appreciate being here.

Speaker 3 (Jeffrey Gross): Thanks for being part of this.

Speaker 2 (Joe Dougherty): Well, it’s an honor. You know, we talked about the Flager and Associates Personal Injury Hour on WWDB, and that’s a great new show. And so, you know, I figured, you know what? It’s Super Bowl week, man, let’s get some heavy hitters on the broadcast. And you know, so we’ll talk a little sports. We were going to do this broadcast at 6:30 on Sunday. Jeff requested that, and I suggested coming Sunday. But you know why we didn’t do it? And this is, and I want to be honest with our listeners. I didn’t want to dent the ratings of the Super Bowl. The last thing I want is 45 to 50 million people listening to the Jeff Gross Show and missing the Eagles game, so we gave them a reprieve.

Speaker 3 (Jeffrey Gross): Very kind of you, Joe.

Speaker 2 (Joe Dougherty): Well, it’s my pleasure. Having said that, obviously that’s, you know—I mean, what are your thoughts? What are your thoughts on the game? Jeff, I’m going to bring Adam into it because Adam has, just so you understand, an interesting heritage when it comes to football. Somehow it got through security anyway.

Speaker 3 (Jeffrey Gross): I can’t wait to hear that story.

Speaker 2 (Joe Dougherty): You’re going to hear it.

Speaker 3 (Jeffrey Gross): Well, you know, my feeling is that it’s a very easy play. Just give the ball to Saquon and the game is over.

Speaker 2 (Joe Dougherty): Let me tell you a little bit about Adam Flager. When you mention Saquon, think of what fans would be the most hurt by watching this. Now, I’m not saying that there’s any relationship there, but he’s got a very interesting heritage. Eagles, obviously, but talk about your heritage when it comes to sports.

Speaker 4 (Adam Flager): So my family is from New York. My dad was born in the Bronx. My grandparents were from the Bronx, and the only team that was passed down to me was the Giants. I don’t like a single other New York team. I don’t like the Yankees, the Mets, the Islanders, the Rangers, the Knicks. I actually detest all of them. That was the only team that was passed down. And I don’t like a single other New York team, having said that, I’ve lived in the Philadelphia area and lived in Philadelphia proper for many years, and most of my other family friends are all Eagles fans. My son is an Eagles fan. So my wife instituted a new season that he has to be supportive of me and I have to be supportive of him. I took him to a couple of Eagles games this year. We were at the divisional round against the Rams. And, you know, I’m happy for Saquon. I didn’t want what happened to Barry Sanders to happen to Saquon, where you have this generational talent wasting that talent on a team that doesn’t deserve him. I’m happy he’s thriving because he should. He’s too good to waste that.

Speaker 2 (Joe Dougherty): That narrative, by the way—a lot of Giants fans I have seen—at first, you had the narrative of the traitor and all that, but the overwhelming majority of the Giants fans that I’ve talked to are happy with Saquon. At least outwardly, yeah.

Speaker 4 (Adam Flager): Well, there are a lot that are bitter, but I think because the Eagles are doing so well, it’s not like, “Oh, well, if we had Saquon, we’d be doing well”. No, we would be doing the same thing we did with him every year, which is being bad, and he would be great on a bad team.

Speaker 2 (Joe Dougherty): So, having said that, it’s interesting. Jeff, growing up, and we’re relatively the same age. Adam’s a little older than us, of course. But you know, growing up, what was your NFC East опыта—any teams based on your experiences growing up that you dislike more than others? Of course, the Eagles are our team, but I’ll tell you what I liked.

Speaker 3 (Jeffrey Gross): I had a bedspread when I was a kid of all the NFL teams, including the Baltimore Colts. Remember the Baltimore Colts? Johnny Unitas. I used to love the Miami Dolphins because they had the most colorful uniform. It was a pretty cool uniform. And I loved the Raiders because they were like, you know, black and gray and tough. Those are the things I based my like of teams on—uniforms. But my grandfather always instilled in me that the Eagles were the way to go, obviously. He didn’t call them “Eagles,” of course; he called them “The E-Gulls”.

Speaker 2 (Joe Dougherty): Me too, my grandfather also called them “The E-Gulls”.

Speaker 3 (Jeffrey Gross): And so, you know, that’s where I grew up.

Speaker 2 (Joe Dougherty): Well, I never ever liked—I know the Giants have some good reasons to hate the Eagles. Speak of Giants fans because of the Miracles in the Meadowlands—things that are one in a trillion—the losses are just unimaginable. However, I have never had an issue with the Giants when I look back. Even on NFL films. Like I said, if you watch a lot of these 30 for 30s, of course, I hated Larry Bird’s guts. I love watching the legendary stuff. I hate him because he was so good and he played for Boston. But I love looking at the old-timers. Mother of God, LT. The stories are legendary. And I’m a massive Bill Parcells fan. I hated him when he played, but he would have been perfect for us; he’s like a Philly-oriented guy. But I never disliked the Giants. I never had a problem with the Cardinals when St. Louis was in our division. I never really liked the Redskins much because they were good at times. But Dallas—

Speaker 3 (Jeffrey Gross): That’s the answer. It’s Dallas. Everybody hates Dallas unless you’re from there.

Speaker 2 (Joe Dougherty): Well, none of these young kids know why we hate them. We were stuck playing Roger Staubach and Tony Dorsett for decades. Not until Dick Vermeil got there and Wilbert Montgomery went off-tackle right to the house in the NFC Championship game. And football all comes in cycles. It is funny watching the Giants fans on reels. They’re showing Saquon going when he ran the first play against Washington. It was funny because it is nuts. So anyway, I’m excited about this week. I thank God we already have one, Jeff, because not having any is desperate. I’m looking to see if we can get a crew to kidnap Mahomes. We’re not worried about that, but I think we got a good shot. It’s not going to be easy. So Adam, your thoughts on the three-peat?

Speaker 4 (Adam Flager): Yeah, I mean, as a fan of football, to see something that’s never happened before would be cool and exciting. But I know that would also mean devastation for my family and heartbreaks.

Speaker 2 (Joe Dougherty): I won’t be as devastated as I would have been had that Tom Brady pass been caught at the end.

Speaker 4 (Adam Flager): And again, the Giants and Eagles can bond over the fact that Tom Brady is one and three against us. I don’t think he’s lost to any other team in the Super Bowl, but the NFC East was basically too much for him to handle. So we have that. We have our mutual hatred of Dallas.

Speaker 2 (Joe Dougherty): The two favorite teams you all have are the Giants, the Eagles, and whoever’s playing Dallas, right?

Speaker 4 (Adam Flager): Yeah, but it should be a great game. Both teams are phenomenal, they both have great weapons, and as we were talking about before the show, both defensive coordinators are really top-notch. I really just want a great game. As long as my son isn’t crying, it’s a success.

Speaker 2 (Joe Dougherty): Well, I’m definitely excited about it. Just give him mac and cheese all night.

Speaker 4 (Adam Flager): Whatever he wants.

Speaker 2 (Joe Dougherty): I’m an absolute nervous wreck. When I look at the game, I think we got a shot. Kansas City is a mean machine. I just don’t think they give a crap about the regular season. Even though they were 15 and 2, they lost 38-0 in the last game; nobody played in that game, correct?

Speaker 4 (Adam Flager): Well, that’s true. All their starters had 20-some days off between the last game and the divisional round. They’re rested.

Speaker 3 (Jeffrey Gross): But everybody says they’re rested. I don’t necessarily agree with that. I think the more rest they get, the more rusty they get.

Speaker 2 (Joe Dougherty): Well, in baseball, that applies 100%. You make the wild card and you don’t get the bye, and that week is crushing these teams. With football, the reason I believe the bye does help is because of the injuries. That game is so brutal.

Speaker 3 (Jeffrey Gross): Just one play. If you were in for just one play and you got tackled, you’d think about it for six months.

Speaker 4 (Adam Flager): I think about our clients all the time with that, where a guy is running down and a defensive player comes from the side, and that running back or wide receiver has no clue that that guy is closing in on him and crushes them. And the physical force that’s being put on that player, and they bounce back up.

Speaker 2 (Joe Dougherty): Well, here’s an interesting thing. I played football in high school and I coached it. I was a union ironworker. A friend of mine, Joe Patrol, said you got to come out and play for the semi-pro team. In fact, Danny McCafferty, the Supreme Court Justice, played on the team with me. I had him on a show and we still have that debate on who was better. But I can tell you this: I hadn’t been working out. I was climbing columns as an ironworker every day. I broke one in practice. I get hit from the side. Man, that semi-pro was not even close to the NFL. It’s like getting hit by a Mack truck.

Speaker 4 (Adam Flager): Yeah, you were talking about LT earlier; he ended careers.

Speaker 2 (Joe Dougherty): Imagine Ron Jaworski every day he gets up. Any of those quarterbacks. They look at Mahomes and see a personal foul if somebody touches him. touchdown, and the game is over, Kansas City wins. Could you imagine what Jaworski and those guys think?

Speaker 4 (Adam Flager): You got away with a lot back then that you cannot do now. But also, Patrick Mahomes is the face of the league and he’s selling tickets. If you have your best players out—think about when Brady got injured and they changed the rules.

Speaker 2 (Joe Dougherty): It was the only year they didn’t make the playoffs. So before we go, Eli Manning—do you think he’s a Hall of Famer this year?

Speaker 3 (Jeffrey Gross): I do. I think he will be. He finished in the top 10 in passing yards and is a two-time Super Bowl MVP. There’s only one other, otherwise usually you get in.

Speaker 2 (Joe Dougherty): Oh, he’s getting in. You saw what happened after they let him go, right? I think he gets in and we’ll see what happens. All right, gentlemen, let’s talk a little law. Jeff Gross, if you will, remind our listeners about yourself and the firm.

Speaker 3 (Jeffrey Gross): Sure thing. I handle all workers’ compensation claim litigation from the onset to the end of the claim. I do that mostly in Philadelphia, but all throughout the state and New Jersey. We only represent the claimant; we never represent insurance companies.

Speaker 2 (Joe Dougherty): Fantastic. Adam Flager, about yourself and the firm.

Speaker 4 (Adam Flager): Thank you. I’m Adam Flager of Flager & Associates. We are a personal injury firm. We handle motor vehicle accidents, slip and falls, dog bites, dangerous products, and everything in between. We handle it from the very beginning until we hand you that check at the end.

Speaker 2 (Joe Dougherty): So you talk about the relationship with the clients, which is so important. These are such specialized areas of the law. It’s ridiculously important for individuals to find a specialist, particularly because of something called “third-party cases” where there’s a potential for both individuals in this room to work together on the same case. Jeff, a little bit about what a third-party case is.

Speaker 3 (Jeffrey Gross): My specialty is workers’ compensation. However, if the fault of the injury is from a party other than the employer, that’s what we call a third-party claim. If you’re driving a Mack truck and you get T-boned by another Mack truck, you have a workers’ comp claim against your company but also a third-party claim against the other driver and company. “Third-party” refers to the word “other”. First-party is you, your employer, and the carrier. You cannot sue your employer for negligence, no matter how egregious it was. The negligence claim has to arise out of another party besides your employer.

Speaker 2 (Joe Dougherty): So workers’ comp itself is no-fault, correct?

Speaker 3 (Jeffrey Gross): Even if it’s your fault, you still qualify for workers’ compensation. Intentional acts would not be included, but if I dug a hole and fell in it, that’s my own negligence and I still qualify.

Speaker 2 (Joe Dougherty): How many people think they don’t get anything because it was their fault?

Speaker 3 (Jeffrey Gross): A lot of people are told by their employer, “You’re not getting paid because you destroyed the load”. I had a client years ago driving from Colorado to New York delivering beer. He was trying to get a bonus and dozed off on Route 80 in Pennsylvania, went over an embankment, and lost the entire load. The company told him there was no way he was getting benefits because he lost the payload. They were wrong. He didn’t do it intentionally; he was trying to get the incentive bonus. That qualifies.

Speaker 2 (Joe Dougherty): So Adam, what are the most common third-party cases?

Speaker 4 (Adam Flager): Motor vehicle is very common. If you drive for a living and someone else hits you while you’re on the clock, that’s a third-party case. Also, deliveries. If you’re delivering a package to a front door and the walkway is icy or concrete is crumbling and you fall—you’re on the clock for workers’ comp, but the owner didn’t take care of the walkway, so that’s a third-party case too.

Speaker 2 (Joe Dougherty): Trucking accidents can be very complicated. Adam, how complicated can something like that get?

Speaker 4 (Adam Flager): If you’re driving for work on the clock, you’re good on the comp end. That other truck unrelated to your company causing the accident and injuries means you have both claims.

Speaker 2 (Joe Dougherty): What about insurance? If you get in a car accident yourself and the person doesn’t have insurance and you have the minimum, you got a problem. Does the insurance both parties have affect the injured party in a third-party work accident?

Speaker 4 (Adam Flager): The difference with a workers’ comp case is the medical goes through comp instead of car insurance. Most people only have $5,000 of medical benefits on their auto policy, whereas comp doesn’t have that limit. Your first claim is against whatever vehicle caused that accident. If they don’t have sufficient limits, you can make a claim against your own insurance for underinsured coverage.

Speaker 3 (Jeffrey Gross): The workers’ compensation carrier has a right of subrogation against that third-party recovery. If you’re successful against the other driver, the workers’ comp carrier is entitled to be reimbursed. But if there is no insurance from the third party and you have an uninsured motorist claim on your own policy—not the company’s—then there is no right of subrogation.

Speaker 2 (Joe Dougherty): Jeff, what is the process when you get a potential third-party case?

Speaker 3 (Jeffrey Gross): I assess the accident for both workers’ comp and a third-party claim. I would call Adam and say I think there’s a third-party case here. I have a referral network for third-party claims. I get involved when the cases require wage loss reimbursement. If the injury is serious enough that they cannot work, they come to me.

Speaker 2 (Joe Dougherty): Adam, what are your first steps when you get that call?

Speaker 4 (Adam Flager): I get info about the nature of the claim and injuries. Jeffrey is on the medical side making sure the claimant gets proper care. I do the investigation to figure out my defendant and what insurance they have. We look for witness statements to support liability. I deal with the insurance headaches so the client doesn’t have to.

Speaker 2 (Joe Dougherty): Where do these cases interact and impact one another?

Speaker 3 (Jeffrey Gross): Communication is key. When there’s a development, I let Adam know. I make sure he has all my medical records and he shares his. The workers’ comp carrier has a vested interest in getting their money back, so they often do liability investigations that give us information we otherwise wouldn’t get. Procedurally, Adam usually waits for me to finish my workers’ comp claim. Adam doesn’t want to file suit immediately because as soon as he does, the third-party defense attorney will try to mitigate damages, take depositions, and slow down my workers’ comp role.

Speaker 2 (Joe Dougherty): What are the statutes of limitations?

Speaker 3 (Jeffrey Gross): Workers’ compensation is a three-year statute of limitations, but there’s a 120-day notice provision. If you wait three years but fail to give notice within 120 days of the accident, you’re time-barred. We encourage clients to notify supervisors ASAP. You want to bring the claim as early as possible to be more credible.

Speaker 4 (Adam Flager): Personal injury is a two-year statute of limitations from the date of the injury. You have to file a lawsuit by then, but cases can often be settled amicably without filing. Sometimes we strategically wait because a person still needs surgery or rehab and filing too soon puts you up against court deadlines before the client is 100%.

Speaker 2 (Joe Dougherty): Can there be separate settlements?

Speaker 3 (Jeffrey Gross): In fact, that’s the majority of the situation. We settle the workers’ comp case first because that deals with the past and future wage loss and medical expenses in a lump sum. Then I hand Adam a package with a bow on it.

Speaker 2 (Joe Dougherty): How does that help your case, Adam?

Speaker 4 (Adam Flager): The bigger that subrogation claim is, the more the other side has to pay. Because Jeff is good, I get big subrogation claims that benefit our client because it shows economic damages right off the bat. I get the remaining part of the wages and pain and suffering on top. And I can get all the medical records for free because those costs are reimbursed on the workers’ comp side.

Speaker 2 (Joe Dougherty): What exactly is subrogation?

Speaker 4 (Adam Flager): I’m getting the carrier’s money back for them. They reduce the amount by a percentage of attorney’s fees and costs. We work with the carrier to compromise that amount to make sure we’re getting the right amount in our client’s pocket.

Speaker 3 (Jeffrey Gross): I drive up that lien to make the third-party claim settle exponentially higher. I calculate the economic damages—wages and medical. Adam gets the non-economic damages—pain, suffering, loss of life’s pleasures, mental anguish, and humiliation. That amount is exponentially higher and delivered in a second lump sum.

Speaker 2 (Joe Dougherty): How can clients help themselves during a case that may last years?

Speaker 3 (Jeffrey Gross): Communicate with your lawyers. Tell me if you were in another accident after ours. If they don’t tell me and it comes out in cross-examination, it ruins the case and deflates the value.

Speaker 4 (Adam Flager): I grill clients about prior accidents and injuries. If I find out in a deposition, there’s very little I can do and the client’s credibility is out the window. Nobody wants to give you money if you aren’t credible. Also, reporting is huge. If you fall in a store and don’t tell the manager, the security footage is gone by the time you come to me a month later. We also need you to tell us about your unique life details—like if you take care of an elderly family member—so we can humanize you to the insurance company.

Speaker 2 (Joe Dougherty): Jeff, you mentioned video surveillance.

Speaker 3 (Jeffrey Gross): Videotape surveillance doesn’t necessarily show anything bad—you can drive even if you’ve been in an accident. But if you testify that you can’t drive and then they catch you on tape, it ruins your credibility.

Speaker 4 (Adam Flager): Sometimes people think they are going to outsmart the insurance company. Someone said they couldn’t lift anything and then they were caught leaving a big box store with the husband carrying a big thing of laundry detergent into the house. That would have been fine if they explained that he struggles to do it but there’s no other way, but they said he couldn’t do it. That case took a big hit financially. Now you can also go on social media. Hiring an investigator is expensive, but social media is inexpensive. I had an attorney show a client a picture of her dancing on a bar top after she testified she couldn’t do all these things. They are going to catch you.

Speaker 2 (Joe Dougherty): I want to point out to our listeners that there are no out-of-pocket costs to seek a consultation or retain Adam or Jeff. Adam, hiring experts can get expensive and you do that as part of the case.

Speaker 4 (Adam Flager): We are committed to your case. If I sign you up, it’s because I believe in you. If I get money for you, I get reimbursed, but sometimes you don’t get reimbursed if there isn’t a case.

Speaker 2 (Joe Dougherty): It’s important to have a firm with resources. Adam Flager, if you will, contact information.

Speaker 4 (Adam Flager): Flager & Associates handles Pennsylvania and New Jersey. Our phone number is 215-953-5200 and flagerlaw.com.

Speaker 2 (Joe Dougherty): Jeff, if you will, contact information.

Speaker 3 (Jeffrey Gross): Best place to get me is on my cell phone at 215-512-1500 or my firm at Gross & Kenny at 267-589-0900. The website is https://www.google.com/search?q=phillyworkerscomp.com.

Speaker 2 (Joe Dougherty): It’s been a fantastic show. Go Birds!