Blog

The Synergy of Workers’ Comp and Third-Party Claims

In this landmark 11th episode of The Jeffrey Gross Show, host Jeffrey Gross is joined by his long-time mentor Joe Messa, Jr. of Messa & Associates, Marla Joseph of the Law Offices of Marla A. Joseph, and DJ Kepler of Covered Bridge Capital.

The episode serves as a masterclass in how different areas of injury law must work in tandem to protect the “little guy.” While workers’ compensation is a no-fault system designed to provide immediate relief, it often isn’t enough to cover the lifetime costs of a catastrophic injury. That is where “Third-Party” liability comes in.

Key Discussion Points:

• The 1991 Mentorship Story: Jeff Gross recounts his first-ever case involving a trucker who fell asleep at the wheel and how Joe Messa’s work ethic (and soft-pretzel lunches) inspired his 35-year career.

• The Legends of Justice Hall of Fame: A look at the 2024-2025 inductees, including the selection of Jeff Gross, Joe Messa, and Marla Joseph by a panel of their peers for setting the gold standard in legal representation.

• Fighting the “Smoke Out”: Joe Messa discusses how insurance companies try to wait out desperate, injured families to force low-ball settlements, and why preparing every case for trial is the only way to win.

• Kids’ Chance of PA: Marla Joseph shares the mission of providing $3 million in scholarships to children of catastrophically injured workers.

• The Bridge to Settlement: DJ Kepler explains how non-recourse funding provides a financial safety net for victims who might otherwise lose their homes during a five-year litigation process.

Philadelphia Sports Breakdown

The episode kicks off with a heated analysis of the Eagles’ loss to Tampa Bay, Jalen Hurts’ pocket awareness, and the Phillies’ outlook as they enter the “sprint” of the MLB playoffs.

Transcript

Show: The Jeffrey Gross Show

Episode: 11

Date: September 30, 2024

Host: Jeffrey Gross, Esq. (Gross & Kenny LLP)

Co-Host/Moderator: Joe Dougherty

Guests: Joe Messa, Jr., Esq. (Messa & Associates); Marla Joseph, Esq. (Law Offices of Marla A. Joseph); DJ Kepler (Covered Bridge Capital)

[Speaker 1]: The opinions and statements expressed in the following program do not necessarily reflect those of WWDB, its staff, or management.

Joe Dougherty: All right, ladies and gentlemen around the Delaware Valley, welcome to the Jeff Gross Show here on WWDB Talk 860. We’ve got a fantastic show, you know, lots to talk about. Joe Messa is in the house from Messa & Associates. How are you, Joe?

Joe Messa: I’m great, Joe. Thanks for having me, man. Good to see you. It’s always a pleasure.

Joe Dougherty: And of course, our host, Jeff Gross. How are you, sir?

Jeffrey Gross: I’m doing well, Joe. Thanks for doing this. And Joe Messa, thanks for doing this too.

Joe Messa: Thanks for having me, Joe. I’ve known both you guys a long time, so we’ve got a lot to talk about.

Joe Dougherty: And you’re a Penn Charter guy, right? No, you’re—speaking of which, he’s a Chestnut Hill guy!

Joe Messa: Speaking of which, I was at the Chestnut Hill homecoming game on Saturday where they slaughtered Lawrenceville and are now 4-0 going into the Inter-Ac schedule. It may be their year.

Joe Dougherty: I want to bring in DJ Kepler of Covered Bridge Capital. How are you, DJ?

DJ Kepler: I’m doing well, Joe. Thank you.

Joe Dougherty: Covered Bridge is sponsoring this special broadcast. Matt Menora is our producer. One of the things we like to do is go around the horn and talk about everybody’s firm, but let’s talk a little sports before we get into all that. Everybody saw the Eagles game, right?

Joe Messa: We’re in mourning. Unfortunately, it was a rough day yesterday. They weren’t prepared to play. The offense couldn’t move the ball. I think they only gave Saquon [Barkley] the ball 10 times. They got behind quick because of the defense. I think the game planning by Vic Fangio was poor, and they didn’t adjust at all. They should have known, based on the condition of the Bucs’ offensive line, that Baker Mayfield would try to get the ball out quickly in rhythm with short passes—which they did. We weren’t able to get any pressure. We couldn’t tackle all day. That killed us.

Jeffrey Gross: And if I hear one more complaint about how hot it was there, I’m going to blow my mind.

Joe Dougherty: Well, that’s because it wasn’t hot—it was 70 degrees on Tampa Bay’s side of the field at all times! See, they didn’t have to play in the same cook that we did. I’m being sarcastic, of course. They did not look like they were having a problem with the heat. Where’d you watch the game, DJ?

DJ Kepler: I watched it at home. The biggest thing I took away was that they didn’t take advantage of any momentum. When they returned that blocked kick, that should have been a turning point.

Joe Dougherty: It kind of was, until we got to the 30-yard line. Then you saw Dallas Goedert—look, he’s catching seven balls, leading receiver—but I used to coach high school, and Goedert was wide open. He had eight or nine targets, and he drops the most important one right in his hands. The whole momentum changes. And then there’s Jalen Hurts. I’d love to get his film from 2022 when he was second in MVP voting and compare it to now. He’s holding onto the ball in that pocket like he’s got two hours. He’s got no pocket awareness at all.

Joe Messa: Way too long. He’s holding it back there, feeling pressure that’s not there. He’s not being comfortable stepping up.

Joe Dougherty: Do you think he has the “yips”? I don’t mean throwing ability, but he does not look like the same player after the big money contract that he was before it.

Joe Messa: I think that’s a good explanation for it. He’s getting jumpy, not seeing open receivers.

Jeffrey Gross: He needs to do short passes and then give it to Barkley. Barkley is an asset; I don’t know why we don’t use him more.

Joe Dougherty: Jeff, just so you know, you’re not in a little chair. There’s a bar on the right side you must have hit. You can stand! I thought they were tricking you—giving you the “clown chair.” But let’s talk about that defense. What happened? It was night and day between New Orleans and this week.

Joe Messa: Same players, same lineup, but no pressure from the edge. I think they neutralized Jalen Carter and Jordan Davis by only running outside.

Joe Dougherty: I thought in the beginning of the third quarter we had a chance to come back. When Hurts runs, he even looks slower, though he’s still faster than he looks. But he had five or six sacks.

Joe Messa: It’s the decision-making. See your receiver—second, third—if they aren’t there, pull the ball down and run. It’s all the hesitation.

Joe Dougherty: We need safety valves—easy, high-percentage passes. We have a bye week this early, which we need more than anything to get injured players back. Lane Johnson is out. Let’s look at the Phillies. They don’t know how to play small ball; they’re always swinging for the fences.

Jeffrey Gross: Doesn’t that go to coaching? Football, baseball… people are calling for Sirianni’s head.

Joe Dougherty: If Sirianni—those lack of kicking field goals bites us in the butt. You don’t just flip a coin. He’s kicking when he should be punting and going for it when he should be taking the points. Jimmy Johnson said the same thing at halftime.

Jeffrey Gross: Last week was ridiculous. They should have gone for the field goal twice. We would have been up nine points.

Joe Dougherty: What do you think about the new kickoff rule?

Jeffrey Gross: It’s horrible. It’s wasted. You’re on the 30-yard line. Why aren’t you squibbing it to the five-yard line and letting the clock run? I hate the rule. I was watching college football thinking, “This is the way it should be.”

Joe Messa: I hope it’s a one-year trial. You can’t even try an onside kick until the end of the game and you have to tell them in advance. It’s ridiculous.

Joe Dougherty: Now, the Phillies. I’m worried about the bye week. Normally you fight for the bye, but we’re losing momentum. Did you see the last at-bat yesterday? He almost hit a grand slam—two feet from it—and we almost lost.

Joe Messa: It’s crazy how different the pitching looks in the second half. Ranger Suarez—can you rely on him as a fourth starter? Chris Sanchez is the clear third starter. I hope they don’t try to march Taijuan Walker out there.

Joe Dougherty: I would be nervous if they threw Taijuan out against Chestnut Hill Academy! Baseball is a marathon and a sprint. 162 games is the marathon; the sprint starts in a week. Jeff Gross, remind our listeners about yourself and the firm.

Jeffrey Gross: I handle all work-related injury and workers’ compensation claims for workers who can no longer perform their jobs. I’ve been doing this for 35 years. I actually got my start from Joe Messa. My firm is Gross & Kenny; we are four lawyers and support staff fighting for the injured worker.

Joe Dougherty: Joe Messa, tell us about yourself.

Joe Messa: Unlike Jeff, I do not do workers’ comp. If you have a workers’ comp case, call Jeff. I do every other kind of injury case: catastrophic injuries, third-party claims against general contractors, medical malpractice, and product liability. There is a great synergy between Jeff and me because when someone is hurt on a job site, we work together to get the best result in both the third-party context and the workers’ comp context.

Joe Dougherty: DJ Kepler, tell us about Covered Bridge Capital.

DJ Kepler: We support both types of clients. We provide financial assistance to clients waiting for their cases to settle. If they can’t work and bills are piling up, we provide an advance on their settlement. It’s non-recourse—if they lose the case, they don’t owe us the money back.

Joe Dougherty: Joe Messa, these catastrophic cases don’t settle overnight.

Joe Messa: A lot of our cases involve amputations, spinal cord injuries, or paralysis—things that impact a lifetime. To maximize recovery, we prepare every case for trial. That takes time—sometimes four to five years.

Joe Dougherty: I always wonder how people make it through if they are destitute.

Joe Messa: The insurance companies’ plan is to “smoke them out”—wave a little money in front of them when they are desperate so they settle cheap. We have to help them hold out for the full value.

Jeffrey Gross: Workers’ comp helps because it provides ongoing income during the case. We often hold off on a comp settlement until the third-party case is ready, because the larger the comp claim, the larger the subrogation lien Joe can use to his advantage to create a larger third-party result.

Joe Dougherty: Most people don’t go to an attorney until they’ve been “screwed with” by the insurance company. They get hit with an “IME”—Independent Medical Evaluation—which is anything but independent. Joe, I loved your commercial about the little girl with the amputated pinky.

Joe Messa: The defense lawyer called me and laughed, saying “What’s this case worth, $30,000?” I told him he’d be paying me seven figures. He laughed again. It never happened—we got the result.

Joe Dougherty: DJ, you mentioned it’s expensive to borrow, so this isn’t the first option.

DJ Kepler: Right. Explore every other option first. I was at the Philly Bench Bar and a defense attorney asked, “Why don’t they just go to the bank?” Well, these clients don’t have income because they are injured. Banks won’t take a legal case as collateral. We are the solution for people who would otherwise lose their homes.

Jeffrey Gross: DJ isn’t giving a loan; he’s funding them. If the case fails through no fault of their own, he doesn’t get paid.

Joe Dougherty: Jeff, tell that story about your first case with Joe Messa.

Jeffrey Gross: 1991. Joe handed me a case for a trucker driving from Colorado to New York. He tried to do it in one swoop to get a bonus, fell asleep at the wheel on Route 80, and went down an embankment. The truck was full of Coors beer. He was airlifted to Penn. They denied the claim because he fell asleep. Joe told me to read three volumes of Purdon’s Title 77 over the weekend. On Monday, I told the guy we’d win. In court, Judge Marty Weinberg kicked everyone out and yelled at the defense lawyer: “You mean to tell me you’re defending based on an act he couldn’t control? This is a no-fault act!” We won everything. That’s when I decided I wanted to help the little guy for the rest of my life.

Joe Dougherty: Joe, you are his mentor.

Jeffrey Gross: Joe doesn’t even know this, but I used to watch him. He’d get in earlier than me, stay late, and eat a single pretzel for lunch. He had this “747” briefcase and so much swag. I wanted to be Joe Messa.

Joe Messa: Jeff has done a terrific job. He certainly picked up the work ethic. I don’t remember the details of that case like he does, but he’s taken off and done an amazing job.

Joe Dougherty: Marla Joseph is on the line. Hey Marla!

Marla Joseph: Hey! What’s this about pretzels? If that’s what it took to be successful, I’d be a multi-millionaire!

Joe Dougherty: Marla, you, Jeff, and Joe were all selected for the “Legends of Justice” Hall of Fame. We put together a non-biased board and the three of you were consistently at the top.

Marla Joseph: I’m honored. Joe Dougherty, you said you couldn’t believe I was in the top three without even considering “diversity.” I took that as a huge compliment—that it was based on my lawyering alone. Representing injured workers, I am in the minority as a woman firm owner. I had to eat soft pretzels and pull the hours to make it happen. My father was a lawyer, and seeing him fight for justice motivated me.

Jeffrey Gross: I have to give a shout-out to Marla. She has spearheaded “Kids’ Chance” in Pennsylvania. It provides scholarships for kids of catastrophically injured or deceased workers. She and I are on the board, and she has turned it into our main industry charity.

Marla Joseph: meeting the kids is the best part. We just hit the $3 million mark in scholarships given out. This year we gave $190,000—the highest number. Only California gives more, and given the size difference, we are basically number one. Now my goal is mentorship—matching kids with people in the fields they want to enter.

Joe Dougherty: That’s fantastic. This year’s Hall of Fame includes Bob Mongeluzzi, Larry Bendesky, Jerry Lehocky, George Martin, Bernie Smalley, Marla Joseph, Jeffrey Gross, and Joe Messa. These are the people setting the standard.

Jeffrey Gross: Joe Messa also just won the Musmano Award. It’s the most prestigious trial lawyer honor in Philadelphia, given by the Philadelphia Trial Lawyers Association. I was absolutely inspired by his acceptance speech.

Joe Messa: I’m not a guy who looks for accolades. It makes me uncomfortable when people say glowing things about me. But the mission is real. It’s in my gut. I was raised to take care of the underprivileged. I grew up fighting in the streets of Germantown; now I funnel that energy into fighting for people who need help.

Jeffrey Gross: It’s easy to just go through the motions as a lawyer. But what keeps the fire burning is my grandfather’s legacy. In the 50s, he saw a woman at the bread factory get her scalp ripped off because she wasn’t wearing a hairnet. Management just fired her and refused to help. He told me, “Jeffy, the little guy needs your help.” That’s the fire in my belly.

Joe Dougherty: Joe Messa, what keeps you going?

Joe Messa: I don’t know any other way to be. When I see someone lose a child or a loved one because of negligence, it makes me angry. 36 years later, I’m not changing now.

Joe Dougherty: DJ, how does it feel when you can help?

DJ Kepler: We had a woman who was going to lose her home and have her kids taken by CPS. We were able to pay her mortgage and help her out. People still call us eight years later to say thank you.

Joe Dougherty: Contact information?

DJ Kepler: https://www.google.com/search?q=coverbridgecap.com.

Jeffrey Gross: Cell phone anytime: 215-512-1500.

Joe Messa: 215-568-3500 and messalaw.com.

Joe Dougherty: Thank you all. Have a great day!