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The “James Bond” of Running Backs and the Law

This episode of The Jeffrey Gross Show kicks off with a high-energy breakdown of Saquon Barkley’s unparalleled physical traits—a combination of strength and speed rarely seen in NFL history. But the conversation quickly pivots from the football field to the legal field, exploring the unique “handoff” that occurs when an injured worker has both a Workers’ Compensation claim and a Personal Injury (PI) case.

The “Boutique” Advantage

Host Jeffrey Gross and guest Adam Barris emphasize the danger of hiring a “jack of all trades” attorney. In a world where Pennsylvania workers’ comp law spans three massive volumes, “dabbling” in this field is a recipe for disaster for the client. They discuss:

• The “Expert” Designation: Why workers’ comp is one of the few legal areas where the Supreme Court of Pennsylvania recognizes a formal “expert” certification.

• Cell Phone Accessibility: Why both attorneys give their personal cell numbers to every client to ensure a foundation of trust and communication.

• The British Pub Law Office: Adam Barris shares the story of his new office in Media, PA, which features an authentic British pub (complete with barrister wigs) for post-deposition decompressing.

Third-Party Claims: The “Other” Case

When a delivery driver is T-boned by a negligent truck driver, they actually have two legal battles. Jeff Gross handles the “first-party” side (the employer/comp benefits), while Adam Barris handles the “third-party” side (the negligent driver).

• Subrogation Liens: Learn why having a large workers’ comp lien actually increases the total value of your personal injury settlement.

• The Timing of a Win: Why it is almost always better to settle the workers’ comp claim before the personal injury case to avoid the dreaded “holiday grace period” on your benefits.

Transcript: Episode 14

Date: December 3, 2024

Host: Jeffrey Gross, Esq. (Gross & Kenny LLP)

Co-Host: Joe Dougherty

Guest: Adam Barris, Esq. (Founder, The Barris Firm)

Joe Dougherty: All right, ladies and gentlemen, around the Delaware Valley, welcome to the Jeff Gross Show here on WWDB Talk 860. We’ve got a phenomenal show. Jeff’s guest is Adam Barris, who’s the founder of The Barris Firm. Jeff, how are you, sir?

Jeffrey Gross: I’m doing well, Joe. Thanks. And welcome, Adam.

Adam Barris: Thanks for having me, Jeff.

Joe Dougherty: We record this show on a Monday, and it airs a week later. We don’t know what the Eagles are going to do, but we can talk about Saquon Barkley. Adam and I were talking about Saquon a little bit beforehand, and very rarely have I ever seen traits like the ones he has. The Giants should have paid him just not to play for anybody else. I have never seen, even at the Hall of Fame level, that combination of traits.

Jeffrey Gross: Honestly, no. It’s like those old movies that you watch that are not real where running backs do amazing things, but this is incredible. I watched some clips from his days at Penn State—amazing.

Joe Dougherty: Did you see the one where he’s in a tackling drill at Penn State, he’s hit, and he goes one way and the whole team goes out, and they can’t catch him? Adam, your thoughts? He’s a freak, in a good way.

Adam Barris: He’s a special talent. I just hope he can stay healthy. If he stays healthy, I don’t see an offense better than this offense in the league right now.

Joe Dougherty: Saquon reminds me of high school running backs like Kevin Jones from Cardinal O’Hara, who was always one step from going the distance. But Saquon is doing it at the pro level. How we got him for the price of a decent backup lineman is nuts.

Adam Barris: I just saw today he’s on pace to break Eric Dickerson’s single-season rushing effort.

Joe Dougherty: Jeff, Adam just moved into a new place in Media where his office is.

Jeffrey Gross: With a name like Barris, it’s very easy to remember as a lawyer because it sounds like “barrister”. The old English attorneys, barristers, are fresh in my mind.

Adam Barris: Well, first and foremost, you mentioned that my very first deposition was in 2002. I was so nervous. Opposing counsel went on a diatribe for two or three minutes about how my name is “Barrister” and I better be good at this. In any event, we just bought a new building for our firm, and we are putting in a full-scale British pub. I should call it a “speakeasy” because it’s not open to the public. It is open to opposing counsel who give me a tough time at the deposition table, so afterwards I can maybe persuade them a little better with some of the “good stuff”.

Jeffrey Gross: They won’t be on their games!

Adam Barris: I’ve spent a lot of time with my wife in London, and we just enjoy the pub culture. It’s going to be called “The Barrister,” and every person who visits has to wear the authentic barrister wig that we bought from England.

Joe Dougherty: That sounds great. You always see adversaries on TV having a cocktail together after court, but it doesn’t happen in real life.

Jeffrey Gross: In workers’ compensation, it does. I always tout the Workers’ Compensation section as being the friendliest, most civil section of the Bar Association. We are zealous advocates, but at the end of the day, we are civil and treat each other with dignity. We’ll have lunch or a drink, and that enables us to resolve our cases in a much more amicable fashion.

Adam Barris: I really wish that were the case in the area that I practice. I have the same adversaries every single time—the same insurance companies—and I get along well with them, but I can’t say I’ve ever had a cocktail with them. There just isn’t that collegiality.

Joe Dougherty: Jeff, remind our listeners about your firm.

Jeffrey Gross: I handle all workers’ compensation claims on behalf of the injured worker. We represent workers who are not able to return to their positions and need medical benefits and wage loss. I’ve been doing this for 35 years, and I just love what I do. Our firm is Gross & Kenny in Philadelphia.

Adam Barris: My firm is 100% plaintiff-side personal injury. I’d say 80 to 85% of what we do is motor vehicle; the rest is slip and fall, wrongful death, and miscellaneous cases. My job takes up seven days a week, 24 hours a day, and I love every second of it.

Joe Dougherty: Let’s talk about “boutique firms.” What is that?

Jeffrey Gross: I would classify a boutique firm as a firm that specializes or focuses on one particular area, as opposed to a “jack of all trades” firm. You don’t want to “dabble” in something you don’t know 100% about because you could create a problem for your client.

Joe Dougherty: If somebody is looking for representation, what should they be looking for?

Jeffrey Gross: They should look for a firm that handles only workers’ compensation. Workers’ comp actually has an “expert” classification defined by the Supreme Court of Pennsylvania. There are very few areas, like tax law, where you are considered a certified expert. Personal injury doesn’t have an expert classification; it’s a concentration of practice. Workers’ comp is convoluted—it occupies three volumes of Purdon’s Title 77. Unless you have your thumb on the pulse of latest developments every day, you could misstep very easily.

Adam Barris: I could not agree more. Workers’ comp is very, very specialized. If you have a workers’ comp scenario, you should not go to anybody but a workers’ comp attorney. In my realm, there are “jack of all trades” who handle bankruptcy, domestic, and criminal. If you are in a car accident, you should go to somebody who specializes only in that. It is very easy for somebody who doesn’t know what they are doing to mess up the case.

Joe Dougherty: What should a client be looking for when seeking a personal injury attorney?

Adam Barris: In my humble view, you should be asking for your attorney’s cell phone number, their email, and the ability to contact them at all times. I give all of my clients my cell phone number. I have so many people come to me saying they can only talk to an “intake person” at their current firm. I generally won’t take over a case like that unless the accident was very recent because I’m not cleaning up the mess of another attorney. You should have the ability at all reasonable times to speak to your attorney.

Jeffrey Gross: I do the same thing; I give my cell number to all my clients. My wife probably hates it, but communication is the key to success. If you stonewall your clients, they’ll want a second opinion because they aren’t happy.

Joe Dougherty: You both mention being “Type A” and wanting things done yourself. That builds a trust factor.

Jeffrey Gross: Attorney-client privilege is an exclusive right to have a conversation that goes nowhere else. If you aren’t clear about that trust, clients won’t tell you important things—like if they had a prior injury to the same body part. They need to know they can trust you so you can succeed in the long haul.

Adam Barris: The typical client has just experienced the most traumatic thing in their life. They want someone to nurture them and know you’ll go to war for them.

Joe Dougherty: What should insurance companies and defense attorneys know when you walk into a courtroom?

Jeffrey Gross: You have to develop a reputation based on conduct. You have to convey that you are reasonable and trustworthy. If you are slow to respond to discovery or a judge’s question, you foster a lack of trust. You must be a man of your word, but not a pushover. If I say I’m filing a penalty petition, I do it and I don’t withdraw it.

Adam Barris: I’m dealing with the same seven or eight insurance companies and the same 15 to 20 adjusters all the time. They need to know I’m not going to accept a low-ball offer. I often use “time limit demands”. If my client has five herniated discs and a $250,000 policy, and they offer $100,000, I tell them they have until X date to tender the full $250,000 or I will file suit and execute upon their insured’s personal assets for a judgment in excess of the limit. You have to make good on those promises; they can’t be empty threats.

Joe Dougherty: How important is it to understand the culture of your clients, like the difference between a client in Lancaster versus Philly?

Jeffrey Gross: It’s a relationship that is constantly evolving. You have to get to know your client so your expectations match. People don’t all see life through the same eyes, and you don’t know what you don’t know.

Adam Barris: From the get-go, I tell clients their case won’t be ripe for settlement for five or six months because their prognosis won’t be known until then. I don’t want them selling themselves short.

Joe Dougherty: Let’s talk about a scenario where a delivery driver gets T-boned by a Mack truck while working.

Jeffrey Gross: You have to be an employee to get workers’ comp, which is why Uber and Lyft drivers don’t qualify yet—they are independent contractors. But a delivery driver for a company who gets T-boned is entitled to workers’ comp for wage loss and medical bills. Additionally, they have a third-party claim against the other driver. You can’t sue your employer for negligence, but you can sue the “other” party. That’s where you recover “non-economic” damages like pain and suffering, loss of life’s pleasures, and mental anguish.

Joe Dougherty: Adam, what are the minimums for auto insurance?

Adam Barris: In Pennsylvania, the minimum required for a personal vehicle is $15,000. If you paralyze someone and only have that minimum, they can only get $15,000 from the policy. That’s why Uninsured and Underinsured Motorist coverage is so important to protect yourself from knuckleheads.

Joe Dougherty: You get the call from Jeff about a work-related T-bone. Where do you start?

Adam Barris: I ask for the workers’ comp claim number because they are entitled to a “lien” against the third-party settlement. In a normal car accident, your medical is limited—usually $5,000. But in workers’ comp, there is no limit. Jeff will force them to pay all the bills. That “subrogation lien” actually increases the value of the third-party case because the insurance company knows they have to pay that back in addition to the pain and suffering.

Joe Dougherty: How often do you get these calls late?

Adam Barris: Ideally, I get a call the day of the accident. But sometimes it’s a month later because people think they can’t afford medical treatment or don’t have health insurance. If you have car insurance in PA, you have a minimum of $5,000 in “free” medical coverage—no copays or deductibles.

Jeffrey Gross: I usually pave the way for Adam by taking care of the damage element upfront. I make sure surgeries and therapy are done and packaged nicely for him. It’s a handoff in football—I hand the claim to him and he runs with the third-party side. You want to resolve the workers’ comp claim first to create a finite subrogation lien. If I don’t communicate with Adam, he could settle for far less because he doesn’t have the full lien information.

Joe Dougherty: Does comp settle faster than PI?

Jeffrey Gross: Ideally, yes. But if a client is paraplegic, I shouldn’t settle comp early because they need ongoing medical and wage loss. If the third-party case settles first for a large amount, there is a “holiday grace period” where the comp carrier stops payments until the settlement value is exhausted. That is the backwards way to do it.

Joe Dougherty: What about dog bites?

Adam Barris: Those are sad cases, often involving children and disfigurement. People don’t just want money; they want the dog put to sleep or criminal charges. I have to tell them I am not the DA; I can only get you money and return your calls. I can fight zealously, but I can’t prosecute the owner.

Joe Dougherty: Adam, contact info?

Adam Barris: website is https://www.google.com/search?q=barrisfirm.com. Phone is 215-432-8829 or 610-580-0300. Email is abarris@https://www.google.com/search?q=barrisfirm.com. You will speak to an attorney, not an intake person.

Jeffrey Gross: My cell is 215-512-1500. It’s very easy to remember. Call me, and I will be on the other side.

Joe Dougherty: Thank you both for a fantastic broadcast.