Blog

In the high-stakes world of legal advocacy, success often depends on the “nuggets” of wisdom shared between experts and those they represent. In this episode of Court Radio, host Dean Weitzman of MyPhillyLawyer and co-host Manuel Glenn (also known as “Native Man”) welcome the “favored son” of the show, Jeffrey Gross, Esq., to discuss the complexities of workers’ compensation law in Pennsylvania and New Jersey.

What is “Nuggeting”?

During the broadcast, Dean Weitzman coined the term “nuggeting” to describe the act of providing a wealth of trusted, high-value legal advice to listeners. Jeffrey Gross, a specialist with 35 years of experience and a former chair of the Workers’ Compensation Section, spent the hour “nuggeting” for the Philadelphia community.

The Retaliation Trap

A major theme of the discussion was the fear many employees feel about filing a claim. Many workers worry that “making waves” will lead to them being fired or “canned”. However, Gross explains that if an employer terminates an injured worker, the settlement value of the claim actually increases. This is because the employer loses the ability to mitigate their insurance company’s exposure by offering the worker a “light duty” position.

Mental Stress and the Law

The episode breaks down the three distinct categories of mental health claims in workers’ compensation:

• Physical-Mental: A physical injury leads to mental health issues like anxiety or depression.

• Mental-Physical: Psychological stress results in a physical ailment.

• Mental-Mental: A psychological injury arises from psychological stimuli in the workplace.

Gross noted that while these claims are valid, insurance companies rarely pay them voluntarily, often requiring a formal claim to be filed.

The Paragraph 13 Secret: Protecting Your Social Security

For those facing long-term disability, Gross revealed a critical detail regarding settlement agreements. Without specific “proration language” typically found in Paragraph 13, a workers’ comp settlement can significantly reduce (or “offset”) a person’s Social Security Disability benefits. Gross emphasized that failing to include this language to protect the claimant’s maximum benefit rate can be considered a deviation from the standard of care—or legal malpractice.

Key Differences: Pennsylvania vs. New Jersey

Gross and Weitzman also compared the two neighboring states. While New Jersey offers “permanency awards” for almost any injury, the payouts are often lower than those in Pennsylvania. In Pennsylvania, a worker with a whole-body impairment rating higher than 35% may be eligible for benefits for the rest of their life.

The Golden Rule: Don’t Lie to Your Lawyer

The episode concluded with a vital “nugget” for anyone seeking legal counsel.

Full Transcript: Court Radio (03-01-25)

Speaker 1 (Announcer): Good morning. Court radio is now in session. Call 215-227-2727, when you’ve got legal questions, we’ve got the answers. This is court radio, and now here’s your host, Dean Weitzman.

Speaker 2 (Dean Weitzman): Good morning and welcome back. I am your host. My name is Dean Weitzman, and if you’re tuning in for the first time, this is court radio, the place you come for all your legal advice and stories and entertainment every Saturday morning from nine to 10am right here on 100.3 WRNB and also classics 1079. We got the legal out of the way, folks. Now let’s get to the meat and potatoes. That snarky, smirky laugh is none other than Manuel Glenn. Morning.

Speaker 3 (Manuel Glenn): Dean, good morning.

Speaker 2 (Dean Weitzman): Manuel, this is snarky. Good to see that you’re a free man today.

Speaker 3 (Manuel Glenn): Yes. By the way, I had folks—I needed Dean’s assistance and legal counsel. He guided me swiftly and well, and your boy is a free man. Thank you, Dean.

Speaker 2 (Dean Weitzman): You have an upcoming hearing.

Speaker 3 (Manuel Glenn): I have an upcoming hearing. Yes, yes, something.

Speaker 2 (Dean Weitzman): Well, you know, listen, hearings don’t mean you’re guilty. Absolutely. You know, an accusation in this country still has to be proven by proof beyond a reasonable doubt, even in traffic citation.

Speaker 4 (Jeffrey Gross): Even if you look guilty, unless you’re a federal worker.

Speaker 3 (Manuel Glenn): Well, they’ve been given a buyout, 25,000 and say goodbye, you know, I tell you what, good luck getting that money.

Speaker 2 (Dean Weitzman): Yeah. Well, there’s caveats to that, as there always is, and so any monies that you would be entitled to ordinarily, if you left, like your back pay back vacation time and whatever benefits you would get that gets—that doesn’t get added to the 25 so that’s it. What? So if you’re entitled to 15,000 maybe it’s only 10 grand. Who knows? I don’t know how many people are going to take it. I don’t know how many people will fight it. But we are in a period here in this country and unprecedented. We’ve never been here before.

Speaker 3 (Manuel Glenn): Hey, listen, new world, man.

Speaker 2 (Dean Weitzman): I pretty much don’t listen to the news anymore. It is kind of—I just tune it out, and I just figure we’ll just have to hunker down and get through the next four years, survive and endure. Yeah, right. 215-227-2727 is the number for court radio on Saturday mornings. It’s the number for my Philly lawyer all week long. So if you’ve got a legal issue, problem, claim that you’d like to make you call that number. You’ll get my staff. Maybe you’ll get me as well. It’s always funny when I give clients a call back right off the bat.

Speaker 3 (Manuel Glenn): And all these tickles, they don’t think you’ll do it. You’re “Wait, you’re the guy from the radio show.”

Speaker 2 (Dean Weitzman): Yep, that’s me. And you know, I like to make sure that our radio listeners get everything they’re entitled to get when they retain the services of my Philly lawyer, and I go above and beyond to make sure that that happens. And if I don’t meet that expectation—my expectation—I expect to hear from my clients.

Speaker 3 (Manuel Glenn): Here’s a good thing about you. You are extremely touchable in this town, if you know what I’m saying. I mean, folks can actually see you, meet you, talk to you. Stop that, Jeff. Talk to you. You do pick up the phone. You go over people’s—he goes over your insurance, folks, he’ll go over it with you. I mean, you can’t find that from anybody else.

Speaker 2 (Dean Weitzman): I just keep thinking back to my mom and dad and how, you know they—they weren’t very sophisticated when it comes to insurance—who is?—and they would get policies that really didn’t serve them very well, and they paid more than they should have paid, and there was nobody to give them guidance, right? They went to a lawyer after the—after the claim had happened, and that’s not the time you want to figure out whether you have the right insurance or not sure, because at that point it’s too late. It’s locked in. You know, you can cancel your policy the day after an accident, the insurance company still has to—is still obligated to pay your claim as if you were a current policy holder. So you want to make those decisions beforehand and make sure that you have what you think you have, and you’re paying a lot of money for it. So let’s get it together the right way.

Speaker 3 (Manuel Glenn): But I want to tell you quickly, if you want to see what we all look like, you want to see Dean and see the guests go to native man—N, a T, I V, E, M, a n, n—on the book [Facebook], and you’ll see us live right now on the book. If you’re not a friend, we understand. But we’re right here looking at Dean and our guest today.

Speaker 2 (Dean Weitzman): Yes, our guest is the one and only, the favored son of court radio, the young Jeff Gross. Good morning, Jeffrey. Jeff, you started practicing law, and you went into an area of the law right off the bat that you continue to practice, that being workers compensation law, and it’s a passion for you. It really is, I’m not exaggerating—that’s true. And not only that, but you’ve—so, I mean, you—you’ve been the president of the—or the chair of the Workers Compensation section. And you know all the judges you’re appearing before. You’ve tried many, many cases before each of them. You know the law, you know the defendants or the employers, attorneys, and that pays dividends. I believe that you know people understand what you’re trying to do, and they give you wide latitude to do that.

Speaker 4 (Jeffrey Gross): That’s true. And if you know your audience, and you know who you’re appearing before, and you know the players involved, you can play well with all of them, and you can succeed.

Speaker 2 (Dean Weitzman): And as a result of that, you get your clients the best results they possibly can get on every case you handle.

Speaker 4 (Jeffrey Gross): Absolutely. We don’t skimp a little bit.

Speaker 2 (Dean Weitzman): And that involves taking depositions of the treating doctors so that you can prove the injuries you’re alleging your client sustained. You have relationships with these doctors. You’ve deposed them before. They know what they need to do in order to get the facts before the court. Everybody is well prepared. It’s a well oiled machine.

Speaker 4 (Jeffrey Gross): It is a well oiled machine, and we only use medical experts that are patient advocates. You need to know what you’re getting involved in when you make a—when you’re in litigation

Speaker 2 (Dean Weitzman): What happens if you go to—the client goes to a doctor that they’ve seen their whole life, they have a relationship with the doctor, but the doctor’s never done this kind of work before? He’s never had to show a court the findings that he believes apply to this client.

Speaker 4 (Jeffrey Gross): Well, I will interview that medical expert, that doctor, and if the doctor will participate and seems to be an advocate for my client, then I will use that doctor. But if that doctor won’t play ball. If that doctor doesn’t want to deal with the litigation or participate, then we simply use a different expert, have them do a records review, and that becomes my client’s expert. Some doctors just don’t want to be involved, period. Many doctors don’t because they don’t want to waste their time, and they think that this is something that they don’t need to get involved in, and that’s beneath them.

Speaker 2 (Dean Weitzman): And that personally—and that doesn’t bode well for the client, because the client has to prove certain elements to their claim before the tribunal

Speaker 4 (Jeffrey Gross): Right? It bodes well for the insurance company.

Speaker 2 (Dean Weitzman): Which is why a lot of times you’ll go to an attorney, and the attorney will have a list of doctors, perhaps in—that are in your area where you live, and they’ll give you a choice of a number of doctors. Why? Why does that happen?

Speaker 4 (Jeffrey Gross): That happens because we want to make it easy for our clients to be able to get treatment. So I want the doctors to be close to where my clients live, so we have a whole network of doctors and therapists and other professionals that are healthcare professionals, including mental health professionals, that will participate in this game, I call it, and will help my clients.

Speaker 2 (Dean Weitzman): Yeah, I mean, it’s—I’m not sharing something that is not common knowledge, like we said, as we started this topic. There are doctors who are really good doctors, but they just don’t want to participate in litigation. It takes them away from their practice, and they—they—they’re not willing to put the time and effort in to doing the job they need to do, because there’s really two parts to a doctor’s job when it comes to litigation.

Speaker 4 (Jeffrey Gross): Correct. And there’s also very bad doctors that are willing to participate because they think they can gain money that way, which the judges do not like. And so we have to—we have to actually pick—pick out the doctors that are going to be excellent doctors. And at the same time, be willing to participate and be patient advocates, and those are the experts that we use.

Speaker 2 (Dean Weitzman): 215-227-2727. Have you been in a workers comp claim in your lifetime? And how did it work out for you? Give us a call today. If you’ve got any other legal issues, give us a call. 215-227-2727. I think that a lot of times, people, employees, get involved in an accident. They’re injured, they sustain an injury. I was just talking to somebody, I believe, at Hard Rock Casino in—in Atlantic City. He came up to me because he knew me, and he said, “Hey, you know, I was in an accident at work. I fell and I—and I went to the company doctor, and they said, ‘you’re fine go back to work.'” And I didn’t want to make waves and that I went back to work, but my hand never felt the same after that. And then I went to another doctor many, many months later, and he said, “Oh, you—you had two or three fractures in your hand that never got treated.” And his hand looked deformed. He really had a significant injury, but he was afraid to pursue the claim because he didn’t know if his employer would take it out on him, would can him because he was making a claim. What happens when an employee brings a claim to their employer and the employer starts to give them trouble?

Speaker 4 (Jeffrey Gross): This happens all the time. Many people are afraid to bring a claim, afraid to speak up, and it’s natural, because you want to succeed in your job, and you don’t want the employer to come back and make a hard time for you, or demote you, or have bad feelings, or ruin the relationship you currently have with that employer. And so many people are afraid to speak up and do something about it. But understand that the law is that you must notify your employer, which is your supervisor, or any supervisory person in your employment, about the work related injury within 120 days. And that’s not to say you should wait 115 days to tell them. You should tell them immediately. And I always give the same advice to all of my clients: you’re better off notifying your employer, your supervisor, about the work related injury immediately, as opposed to waiting. Number one, if you wait, your credibility goes down, and you’re looked upon as—well, maybe, why didn’t he come to us? Why didn’t she come to us earlier? And that’s not good for your claim. So you want to tell them immediately. And if you don’t tell them, and things crop up, and then you have to do something, it puts your employer in a bad position with their insurance company, and you don’t want to create a problem that way. So if you put yourself into your employer’s shoes, they would want to know everything that’s going on so that they can effectively manage your situation. If you put them in a bad position where they can’t effectively manage your situation, you’re creating more problems for yourself than if you just told them.

Speaker 2 (Dean Weitzman): Let’s look at the scenario. An employee has an accident, they have an injury, they feel like they can’t continue to do their job. They mention it to their employer, and the employer says, “Listen, we don’t have time for this. You—you’re—you’re—you’re a vital employee here, and if you’re going to go out, we’re going to replace your position.” So you make a decision, and the client goes out to check with the doctor, and the doctor says, “Yeah, you really can’t do that.” So the client’s now not at work, and the employer cans them. How does that play in front of a judge? Because at some point that claim is going to go before a worker’s comp judge. How does—how does the judiciary of Workers Compensation feel? Where does it even come up in—in—in the testimony? Is it relevant? And how do the judges interpret that?

Speaker 4 (Jeffrey Gross): It’s completely relevant, and it happens all the time. And while the Workers Compensation judges do not have the jurisdiction or authority to deal with wrongful termination claims, they do have the authority and the jurisdiction to assess your credibility and the credibility of your employer and or its insurance company. Which means that if you get canned, so to speak, because you’re speaking up and making a claim, then that’s going to—not bode well for the employer. It’s going to bode well for you and your claim. And in fact, if you’re on workers compensation while you get terminated from the position that you were working, then the value, the settlement value, of the workers compensation claim will increase.

Speaker 2 (Dean Weitzman): Because? Why?

Speaker 4 (Jeffrey Gross): Because the employer loses all control to bring you back to work in a modified duty capacity, or even your regular duty capacity, to try to minimize the insurance company’s exposure on the claim.

Speaker 2 (Dean Weitzman): I didn’t do that.

Speaker 4 (Jeffrey Gross): Yeah. So remember, the insurance company must continue to pay workers compensation while you’re out. If you’re out and there’s—and they—and you can return light duty, all your employer has to do is to create a light duty position within your restrictions and pay you the same rate that they were paying at the time of the accident to you. And that will thwart the wage loss component of the workers comp claim. But if you don’t have that job because you’ve been terminated, then they can’t exercise that power, and as a result, the value of your case goes up due to the fact that the workers compensation insurance company has more exposure to pay your claim.

Speaker 3 (Manuel Glenn): Give us a call. We’re at court. Radio. Real back for a second. The mentality that a lot of employees have is like you just said, they don’t want to sue, they don’t want to cause any trouble. Do you find it as in the corporate and the public sector? Does it cross those lines? Is it more so in one of the other? Does everybody, any worker, regardless of who they’re working for, just feel that way?

Speaker 4 (Jeffrey Gross): People feel that way because they’re conditioned to feel that way. When they watch TV and they see insurance company commercials that show a guy on worker’s compensation diving into a pool and getting caught by an investigator and then being brought up on fraud charges, they think, “wow, I don’t want to—I don’t want to be committing fraud, so I’m not going to speak up and make a claim.”

Speaker 3 (Manuel Glenn): But if they know they’re injured, they know they’re in pain, suffering, right? Still won’t do it.

Speaker 4 (Jeffrey Gross): It depends on the kind of pain, and it depends on the job, and it depends on the person. But really what ends up happening—and I see this a lot, especially in head injury cases—people who have concussions from closed head injuries from a work accident generally will deny their own problems because they won’t want to admit to themselves that they are having this issue. Because they don’t want to be abnormal. They don’t want to change their lifestyle. They don’t want to have an impact on what they do on a day to day basis. Stigma that comes with—and they certainly don’t want that stigma. That’s correct. So a lot of people will refrain from notifying their employers, and that is a fundamental error.

Speaker 3 (Manuel Glenn): They’re not your friend.

Speaker 4 (Jeffrey Gross): Yeah. If you don’t speak up, you’re going to lose your credibility in making a claim when you finally speak up. And the question will be: why didn’t you speak up earlier? And of course, there is that reason that “I didn’t want to make waves. I didn’t want to create a problem. I thought I could get better.” And we always have it happen in family businesses. In family business, it does happen. But you know what happens in family businesses? There’s a behind the scenes thing. “Listen, I got a problem here. I don’t want to make a pro—I don’t want to make waves, but I’m having a problem.” In family businesses, a lot of times there’s a lot of fudging of facts by the family business owners in order to make things work. If it’s a self insured company, it’s one thing. If it’s an insured company, it’s another.

Speaker 2 (Dean Weitzman): 215-227-2727. Let’s talk—looks like Troy on line one. Eric, oh, Troy… Troy, going once was gone, going twice. Thank you very much.

Speaker 3 (Manuel Glenn): Lost Troy did? Yeah, well, yeah, call back joy.

Speaker 2 (Dean Weitzman): It was a while. Yeah. 215-227-2727. Call me. You need to have a little bit of patience on Saturday mornings; we will get to you.

Speaker 3 (Manuel Glenn): Yep. I mean, it’s free, so be patient if you’re online right now. You got a question, type of question, and I’ll ask Dean. He’s looking right at you.

Speaker 3 (Manuel Glenn): How did you become native man? Oh, you know? Well, you know how certain folks get in Facebook Jail and folks get kicked off of social media? It started happening so much I just started—had—I had to change a moniker too.

Speaker 6 (Dean Weitzman): Actually, I think they locked you—like they totally locked you up.

Speaker 3 (Manuel Glenn): They took my original account. I can’t access it, so I just became native man. And I’m—you know—I’m not as temperamental.

Speaker 2 (Dean Weitzman): That’s true. That’s true. I see as you’ve aged, you’ve mellowed like a good wine.

Speaker 3 (Manuel Glenn): You know what it is? When you argue with them red hats? That’s where it all starts. That’s where it all started—the back and forth. You know, those type of conversations, and then folks complain. Next thing you know, you’re locked out. Then you get the warnings, and next thing you know, it’s a wrap. It’s a wrap.

Speaker 2 (Dean Weitzman): Been there, done that, yep. All right. Well, listen what you know. You touched upon this idea of mental claim or mental stress. What is that and what would a valid claim look like? What would a bad claim look like?

Speaker 4 (Jeffrey Gross): That’s a good question. Mental claims have become increasingly more popular in workers’ compensation claims than ever before. It seems like everybody’s got some kind of mental issue, whether it be very mild or extremely taxing to your life. But mental claims are in three different categories. For workers compensation claims, you have a physical mental claim, you have a mental physical claim, and then you have a mental mental claim. And really what that means is that a physical mental claim—the first category—means you have a physical injury, and as a result of that physical injury, a mental claim arises out of that and causes you trouble. Doesn’t mean you can’t work. It means that you need treatment most of the time. So let’s suppose you have a lower back injury, and you know, while you’re treating for your lower back injury, you’re developing anxiety and depression because you can’t work and you can’t provide for your family, and you just feel powerless. And as a result, it’s starting to take its toll on you, and you have a mental affect change from that. So what happens is that as long as that mental problem arises out of the physical injury, you have a valid claim under the workers comp law.

Speaker 2 (Dean Weitzman): So they will not only pay to treat your lower back, but they’ll also pay to send you to a psychologist or psychiatrist who will provide treatment for your mental aspect of that claim.

Speaker 4 (Jeffrey Gross): Correct. Albeit not voluntarily. You will most likely have to file a claim for that particular mental issue. Otherwise, why would they just pick that claim up unless their doctor—their panel doctor—agreed that it was related? How often does that happen? Let’s say zero to 1%. So really, a lot of claims are just getting the court to say, “yes, we recognize this injury, and you employer, you must start paying for it as well.” Correct. A lot of times, we will have trouble finding a good quality medical expert or healthcare expert to treat a patient or a client of ours that is a—has an ongoing mental claim because they’re not going to get paid until we win, and therefore they do not want to engage in treatment. Although I have found several that I use routinely who are willing to to help my clients. And even if my client has to pay out of pocket for that, we always get the mental health professional paid and my client reimbursed. So it works out.

Speaker 2 (Dean Weitzman): We got some callers. Let’s take line three. Anonymous, welcome back.

Speaker 3 (Manuel Glenn): Anonymous, good morning, and welcome to court radio.

Speaker 7 (Anonymous Caller): Good morning. I think you guys provide some great information. I’m actually calling on behalf of my fiance. We went through—he had the workman’s comp. And, long story short, he stood for 20 years, and then the shoes they gave him, he couldn’t wear them anymore, and so he had to go out on workman’s comp. But they fought it. They lied. They had people lie, and for two and a half years, he didn’t get paid. There wasn’t any money. It was a hard time. And so the process does take a very long time, but you have to stick with it and be diligent, right? My question is, once you get the settlement at the end—which is really money that you missed for not working, right? So once you miss that money and you get a settlement. And now, because he can’t work at all and then he has to go on disability, they kind of subtract that money from what he needs to get now. So I don’t know if you have any input with that, or, you know, is there a better way? Is there a better way to do the process?

Speaker 2 (Dean Weitzman): Let me ask you a question, just so that the listeners can kind of get a sense. He’s out for two and a half years. What was his settlement?

Speaker 7 (Anonymous Caller): His settlement was, it was like two years, like $72,000 or something like that.

Speaker 2 (Dean Weitzman): He got 72,000 which would mean that it settled for 90 the workers comp attorney took 20% which is 18, leaving 72,000 net for your fiance, right?

Speaker 4 (Jeffrey Gross): Okay, go ahead, Jeff, tackle it. Well, that’s a common problem, and we have a common answer and a common fix for it. What we do is, when we do the settlement agreement, there is a paragraph that asks about Social Security, disability benefits and Medicare benefits, etc. What we do is we put in language in the settlement agreement that is allowable by the federal government in the social security scheme that allows us to prorate the net lump sum that the claimant would receive over the course of his or her lifetime. And so by doing that proration exercise, it drives that amount, that net amount that he or she would get, down considerably below the threshold that Social Security would take an offset against that claim. So instead of taking a credit from that $72,000 and paying him less in Social Security Disability benefits, the social security disability benefit will be paid at its maximum benefit rate.

Speaker 2 (Dean Weitzman): What if an attorney didn’t put that clause in the contract? In my humble opinion, that would be a deviation from the standard of care in the legal representation, which, in terms means malpractice. Correct legal malpractice, not to put those terms in a contract, and then you have a negative impact on your social security. I don’t know if those—if that term is in the contract anonymous, but it’s something you should look for and raise with the attorney who previously represented your fiance.

Speaker 7 (Anonymous Caller): Okay, so if Social Security said there’s no life term or whatever you just call that—that they don’t have that number, so that means it’s probably not in there, right?

Speaker 4 (Jeffrey Gross): Yeah, you need to take a look at the Settlement Agreement, and if that language—it’s actually in paragraph 13, that’s where it’s routinely placed. And in that paragraph, if it does not have that proration language under a federal court case known as Shiatta versus Bowen, which is the applicable case under this particular situation. If that language is not in there, then, in my opinion, that’s a deviation from the standard of care, because it ruins your fiance’s ability to get the maximum Social Security benefit.

Speaker 7 (Anonymous Caller): Anonymous, thank you for—they take attorneys are—but you guys are doing a great job. Next time I will reach out to you. Thank you.

Speaker 2 (Dean Weitzman): Take care, dear. Have a great day, folks. We’re up against the break. We’re going to let our sponsors have a moment of your time, and we will be back in two minutes with Jeff Gross. We’re talking workers comp. Give us a call at 215-227-2727. I grew up here, went to school here, raised my kids here. I know Philly, and Philly knows me. I started my Philly lawyer because if you’ve been injured. Your lawyer matters and choosing someone local matters. It matters to the insurance company. It matters to the jury. And most importantly, your lawyer matters when it comes to getting results. If you’ve been injured, call us now. 215-227-2727, my Philly lawyer, when winning matters most.

Speaker 1 (Announcer): Need more legal answers? Here’s more court radio with your host, Dean Weitzman.

Speaker 2 (Dean Weitzman): Yes, we’re back. We’re live, we’re in the studio. My name is Dean Weitzman, your host of court radio every Saturday morning, right here on 100.3 WRNB and also classics 1079. We take your legal questions and answer them every Saturday morning, right here, right now, live.

Speaker 3 (Manuel Glenn): You can call us and talk to us and get this advice for free. 215-227-2727.

Speaker 2 (Dean Weitzman): And when court radio is not live, that number rings to my Philly lawyer, the law firm in Philadelphia that looks after your needs. Give us a call if you’ve got a problem, we’ve got the solution. 215-227-2727, let’s talk to Jay on line one. Good morning. Jay, welcome to court.

Speaker 7 (Jay): Good morning. Thank you for having me. I basically my first question would be with these same regulations for unemployment apply to the federal government?

Speaker 2 (Dean Weitzman): Workers compensation law. Is it the same for state actions as it is for federal employees?

Speaker 4 (Jeffrey Gross): It is not. Federal workers compensation is completely different from state workers compensation. So workers compensation for a private company—meaning a company that is not the federal government—is governed under the state in which it’s located or where the accident happens. So if you have an accident in Pennsylvania and you work for a Pennsylvania company, then you have Pennsylvania workers compensation. There are 50 states, and therefore 50 different workers compensation statutes or laws all throughout the country. But if you work for the federal government, that’s a completely different ball of wax. There you have the federal government, which is, of course, all 50 states, but they operate under a whole different scheme.

Speaker 2 (Dean Weitzman): Let me ask you a question, because just generally speaking, you’re a federal employee, and you got the notice you got—you got one week to get pack your desk up and get out of town, and you’re—you’re walking out the door with your box in hand, and you trip and fall. After you notice, yeah. After the notice, you trip, you fall. You injure yourself on the property. You’re still there. You’re still at the at the job. You don’t have a job because you lost your job, but you are on your way out. Is that still a valid claim?

Speaker 4 (Jeffrey Gross): It’s a great question. So if this were not a federal claim, but if it were a Pennsylvania claim, and that happened to you and you fell on the employer’s property, you would have a worker’s compensation claim. Why? Because it happened on the employer’s property, and because you would not have been on that employer’s property, but for the fact that you were employed by that particular employer. So if you have an injury on the employer’s property, whether you’re—you know, for whatever reason, if you’re—if you’re actually there for purposes of work, even if you’re leaving there, then you still have a claim.

Speaker 3 (Manuel Glenn): Wow. So those 400 IRS workers in Philly, as they were leaving the building, they trip and fall down the steps.

Speaker 4 (Jeffrey Gross): That’s federal. Remember, that’s different. But if it were Pennsylvania, that would be the result. The test actually, is whether you are furthering your employer’s business. If you’re furthering the employer’s business, then it’s considered course and scope, and it’s covered. But if you’re—how about this property, then it’s covered.

Speaker 2 (Dean Weitzman): You’re done. You’re done. It’s three, four days later, you’re done working, but you forgot to give back your key card and the key to the door, and you come back to work—the key fob, with the key fob—to bring it back to your employer. You hand them the key fob and whatnot, and somebody left a box of files, and as you’re walking out—bada-bing, bada-boom—you fall, you trip, and you injure yourself, and you can’t work anymore.

Speaker 4 (Jeffrey Gross): That’s even better, because that’s not a worker’s compensation claim, but that would be a liability claim for negligence against that entity where you would get not only the wage loss and the medical component, but also the non economic damages, the pain and suffering and all that other goody stuff that you get your clients.

Speaker 2 (Dean Weitzman): I do so that would not be a worker’s comp claim if you’re back at work to drop off the key card that you had that you didn’t give them before you left, correct?

Speaker 4 (Jeffrey Gross): Because you’d be done, done, done. And therefore the relationship is complete.

Speaker 2 (Dean Weitzman): You say that was even better, even better.

Speaker 4 (Jeffrey Gross): And in that first scenario, if the employer wants to defend the workers comp claim, they’re actually opening themselves up—by—if they say you’re not in the course and scope of your employment, and that happens, they’re actually opening themselves up to their—their general liability insurance, which would give you a larger claim.

Speaker 2 (Dean Weitzman): Gotcha. All right. It’s good to know Jeff. What Jeff meant before that—it’s even better when I represent a client on what we call a third party claim. You’re going against a negligent entity who caused your injury. That negligent entity, if they’re not your employer, you’re entitled to your past—or I’m sorry, your current and your future inability to work—so your wage loss claim, your medical expenses and pain and suffering for the rest of your life if you have a permanent injury. That’s really what drives those awards so high, whereas in a strict worker’s compensation claim, you’re only entitled to your wages and the medical portion, so you don’t get the pain and suffering part of it. The umbrella is bigger, much—my—bigger. All right, the only downside is that, on a traditional claim against a negligent party, it gets all wrapped up at the same time, and you have to prove your case, and then the other side either settles or you go to trial, and that takes a couple of years. Whereas in Jeff’s claim, you’re going to get your wages and your medical expenses almost immediately.

Speaker 4 (Jeffrey Gross): And you don’t have to prove negligence. You only have to prove that you were injured in the course and scope of your employment, and you didn’t do it in a self inflicting manner. So you don’t—it’s a no fault act in workers compensation in Pennsylvania; there is no proof—having to prove negligence.

Speaker 2 (Dean Weitzman): Wow. Look at all the calls. Line two, Eric, another, anonymous, there. What a popular name. It’s a—must be a family thing. Anonymous, good morning. Welcome to court radio. Hello. Line two. Do we have line two? Line two… she was out on workers comp for 11 months. They’re claiming she quit. They’re denying her unemployment

Speaker 4 (Jeffrey Gross): Maybe she doesn’t have enough credits in the system to give her the unemployment; that could be the reason.

Speaker 2 (Dean Weitzman): But why would she be seeking unemployment if she’s out on workers comp for 11 months?

Speaker 4 (Jeffrey Gross): Well, if you’re fired, you can make a—unemployment compensation claim, but it’s a little tricky, and there’s a little rule that people need to know about, and that is: when you make a claim for unemployment compensation, you’re saying that you’re ready, willing and able to work, but you’re otherwise unemployed through no fault of your own—meaning, you’ve been laid off or fired for some unknown reason having nothing to do with your performance. And if you say that you’re ready, willing and able to work, that kind of takes away from what you’re trying to prove in a worker’s compensation claim, where you’re saying you are disabled. So if you’re disabled, you’re not ready, willing and able to work, right?

Speaker 6 (Dean Weitzman): Is it that you’re—you can’t work where you did work, but you may be able to do sedentary work?

Speaker 4 (Jeffrey Gross): That was the smartest thing I’ve heard out of your mouth today. Because that is correct. If that is the nuance that we explain to my client… if I have a client that says, “Well, wait a minute, I was just terminated, I’m waiting for my workers compensation, what do I do? Can I collect unemployment compensation?” The answer is yes, but you must say in that unemployment compensation—so it doesn’t come back to haunt you later, as far as credibility is determined—that you are unable to work because you were terminated in part, and you could have worked in a modified duty capacity, but you could not do your regular job, and therefore you’re ready, willing and able to work in a modified duty capacity.

Speaker 2 (Dean Weitzman): Could you collect both?

Speaker 4 (Jeffrey Gross): At some point you could collect both, but, of course, there’s an offset. So if you collect workers compensation benefits later because you win the case and you’ve collected unemployment compensation benefits because of that claim that you filed, then workers compensation will be able to—get a credit for whatever you were paid in the unemployment compensation benefit claim.

Speaker 2 (Dean Weitzman): All right, there you go. There’s so many little nuggets that have come out of your mouth today. It’s incredible. You’re nuggeting.

Speaker 3 (Manuel Glenn): I’m nuggeting, you’re nuggeting. Yeah, that’s gonna add that to the language, yeah.

Speaker 2 (Dean Weitzman): I actually think that that might be a new word. Now you want to—yeah, I want to take—I’m going to take claim for that word. When that word takes off and Morgan and Morgan have it on a billboard… nuggeting… I started—Dean Weitzman, my Philly lawyer, started nuggeting. Just remember that—trademarked, trademarked intellectual property. Line for Robert.

Speaker 3 (Manuel Glenn): Robert, how you doing?

Speaker 8 (Robert): What the question I wanted to ask you was: I work for an employer, right? And I make 112 hours every two weeks, so I have never been paid for four years time and a half.

Speaker 3 (Manuel Glenn): Wow. He’s going in and out. Say it again.

Speaker 2 (Dean Weitzman): No, I heard him. What is it—it’s not a workers comp claim question. It’s a labor question. But we have somebody for that. And that kind of a claim may have some legs, because your employer has to pay you time and a half depending. I mean, there are exceptions to the general rule, but it—you know—I assume you’re not a salaried employee. No? Yeah, I think you may have something there. And I would invite you to give us a call during the week or shoot me an email, either way, give us a call at the same number, 215-227-2727, during the week, or send me an email to Dean—D, E, A n—at my Philly lawyer.com. I will refer you to somebody who’s actually in—in my office. It’s a separate law firm; they’re a tenants of mine, but that’s—that’s just the area that they focus on.

Speaker 8 (Robert): Can I ask you one more question real quick? So I’ve been with this job for four years. There’s a job that I left—they actually fired me. And how they fired me was: I had a flat tire in the van on expressway, and so I drove the van off expressway to keep from getting run over, because he said he was coming to me to fix the flat tire, and that’s what. He suspended me. He suspended me for four days. Then he told me I had a suspension. He gave me a disclaimer to file, to sign, and I never signed it, and he let me go. Can he just let me go?

Speaker 2 (Dean Weitzman): Yes. At will employment, yeah, Pennsylvania, like almost every state in the country, is an at will employment state, unless you are fired for a discriminatory reason. So if—every time somebody gets to be about my age, they get fired. Then you got an, maybe an age discrimination claim, or—you know—if he fires only black employees who have tire issues, you might have a—you might have a race discrimination claim. But if none of those apply, and he just is a toad and says, “I don’t like the fact that you damaged my wheel because you pulled off the road. You should have stayed out there and risked your life for me”—that’s not a protected class, unfortunately, and for that reason, you probably don’t have a claim.

Speaker 8 (Robert): Okay, thank you guys. Hello, Robert. Appreciate the time, and I talked to you on Monday.

Speaker 2 (Dean Weitzman): 215-227-2727, the number for all things legal. Line three, Jason.

Speaker 9 (Jason): The question that I have for you guys is: so I slipped and fell, and I was given the workers comp and whatnot, and my lawyer said something about a permanency award. I wanted to know what that was exactly and how high up it could go.

Speaker 4 (Jeffrey Gross): Okay, a permanency award… was this Pennsylvania or New Jersey?

Speaker 9 (Jason): New Jersey.

Speaker 4 (Jeffrey Gross): How did you know that? Just with the question. And because Pennsylvania doesn’t have permanency awards, New Jersey does. And in New Jersey… is New Jersey a better state to be an employee, or worse? The short answer: worse. Because everything in New Jersey is worth something, but nothing in New Jersey is worth a lot, like it is in Pennsylvania.

Speaker 3 (Manuel Glenn): That’s an interesting way to put it. Define that term you just used. What does that mean? Permanency?

Speaker 4 (Jeffrey Gross): Permanency, meaning you have a permanent injury. Pennsylvania does have something called an impairment rating evaluation, which does evaluate the percentage of whole body impairment as a result of your work accident. And if you are below 35% whole body impaired, which everybody, or 99% of people, are, then you get benefits for another 500 weeks, or 9.6 years, and your medical does not go away. That’s ongoing. But that’s the effect of that. If you’re—if you’re in Pennsylvania, and you have a permanency award of greater than 35% then you are able to get benefits for the rest of your life. So that’s a good thing in Pennsylvania. But it’s not what you’re asking. You’re asking New Jersey, which has a separate award for a permanency evaluation. So once you have reached what they generally term as a maximum medical improvement and you basically plateaued in your treatment, they can evaluate you in New Jersey for permanency award. And when they do that and you have a permanency evaluation, they will make an award for you that’s fashioned to your degree of permanent impairment, and not very much money, unfortunately. Not very much money, unfortunately. I mean, it depends on who you are and what you consider a lot or a little bit of money. But from my perspective, not so much.

Speaker 3 (Manuel Glenn): So it really does differ from state to state.

Speaker 2 (Dean Weitzman): Jason, I’m sorry to hear that you were injured in New Jersey, but best of luck with your claim. Jeff, you have people that represent folks in New Jersey, don’t you?

Speaker 4 (Jeffrey Gross): Absolutely. My firm represents both Pennsylvania and New Jersey claims. My partner, Patrick Kenny, handles the New Jersey claims, and he’s very good at it.

Speaker 2 (Dean Weitzman): All right, folks, we are up against the break. We’ll be back in two minutes. If you’re on the line waiting to get your question answered, stick around and we’ll get to you when we come back.

Speaker 1 (Announcer): Need more legal answers? Here’s more court radio with your host, Dean Weitzman.

Speaker 2 (Dean Weitzman): Yes, we’re back in live. I’m Dean Weitzman, your host right here at court radio every Saturday morning from nine to 10am on 100.3 WRNB and classics 1079. We are live on the radio. We are live on the internet. How do the red glasses look, folks? I like them.

Speaker 3 (Manuel Glenn): Nuggeting. Nuggeting.

Speaker 4 (Jeffrey Gross): You look a little like Joy Behar.

Speaker 2 (Dean Weitzman): I don’t know how to take that. I’m going to ignore it for a second, because I got to get back to nuggeting. Nuggeting: when somebody gives out a bunch of good advice, they’re trusted and you appreciate their good advice, they are nuggeting.

Speaker 3 (Manuel Glenn): Nuggeting, yes. Asterisk, trademark pending.

Speaker 2 (Dean Weitzman): Trademark pending. Let’s talk to Vincent on line five, our last caller for the day. Oh Vincent, good morning, and welcome to court radio.

Speaker 9 (Vincent): My question is: it’s actually for my brother. His hand’s all dislocated. I mean, it’s all bent out of shape and everything. He went to get workman’s comp and his wife, more or less… he just walked away because of his pride, I guess. He didn’t want to start waves, I guess.

Speaker 2 (Dean Weitzman): Well, that’s how we kind of started the show. Employees who don’t want to make waves end up bearing the brunt of their own injury because of their fear that they will not be employable. They’ll be blackballed, they’ll—they’ll lose their job, and they suck it up, but they have a permanent injury that may impact them for the rest of their lives. They’re not getting the proper treatment. And yeah, if you bring a claim, you can rest assured that your employer is not going to be able to toss you out like yesterday’s trash and not have to compensate you. You will be compensated. You will be fully compensated for lost wages well into the future, and you’ll more importantly—or as importantly—you’ll get the proper treatment you need for the injuries you sustain. If the employer tries to fire you or give you trouble that will not bode well for them before the comp judge, and the value of your case will continue to rise exponentially due to your employer’s bad faith tactics. So you know, if you’re sitting out there, you’ve been injured and yeah, and you know you haven’t done anything about it, maybe it’s not too late call Jeff, by the way. How do they call you?

Speaker 4 (Jeffrey Gross): 215-512-1500 is my direct cell number. You can get me there anytime, because guess what? That’s also my cell number.

Speaker 3 (Manuel Glenn): Yeah, yeah, you guys amaze me with this.

Speaker 4 (Jeffrey Gross): I constantly get bothered, but it’s good. I love getting texts from people. If you text me with a problem, I will respond. I can call you back, I can digest it, and I can come up with an answer for you.

Speaker 2 (Dean Weitzman): There you go. So you can text that number or call that number: 215-512-1500. Jeff Gross’s cell phone. Put that in your cell phone if you’ve been injured at work, or—you know—somebody who has, that’s the number to call. Even as an attorney, I have never, ever represented myself. I paid the money. I did what I had to do because, as they say, a client who represents himself has a fool for a client. There is a benefit to that professional separation that you just don’t have when you’re the litigant. When you have that kind of emotion that you bring to the table—when you’re advocating for yourself—you don’t get all you—you’re entitled to get, because you become overwhelmed by emotion, and you don’t think clearly. So I would say, even if I needed a workers comp attorney, I would turn to Jeff. That’s how high of an esteem I hold him.

Speaker 4 (Jeffrey Gross): Thank you, Dean.

Speaker 2 (Dean Weitzman): Relationships matter. As we come to the end of the hour, what is the last nugget you’re going to nuggeting?

Speaker 4 (Jeffrey Gross): The biggest nugget I’m going to give today would be: don’t lie to your lawyer, because your lawyer is your confidant, and your lawyer is the best one to give you advice and to take you out of your bad situation and make it better. And if you lie to your lawyer and unfortunately gets picked up by cross examination by your opposing counsel or by the court or by the judge, then you have a problem, and your lawyer cannot effectively help you. But if you come clean with all your dirty laundry to your lawyer, your lawyer should have a skill set that enables him or her to help you in such a way that will extricate you from your bad situation.

Speaker 2 (Dean Weitzman): All right, good stuff. Don’t lie to your lawyer. Winning matters most.

Speaker 4 (Jeffrey Gross): I think that is trademarked.

Speaker 2 (Dean Weitzman): Yes, it is. MyPhillyLawyer. Nuggeting will be trademarked. Jeff, thank you so much for providing great information. Every show that you’re on, I walk away feeling like we’ve taught people a little bit about your area the law that will benefit them in the long run.

Speaker 4 (Jeffrey Gross): Thank you, Dean.

Speaker 2 (Dean Weitzman): Folks, we’ll be back next week. Have a great week.